We hear about Judith Light’s Susan Carpenter-McMillan on Impeachment: American Crime Story before we ever see her. A clerk for Paula Jones’s high-powered attorneys lets them know that Jones, her husband, and “another woman” are in the waiting room. “Who?” the lawyers ask, and the clerk shakes her head in exasperation: “I…can’t even describe.”

Not many actresses could enter a room and match that setup, but Light certainly can, especially when embodying the larger-than-life Carpenter-McMillan, a self-described “conservative feminist” who became Jones’s spokeswoman during her lawsuit against Bill Clinton. Light, a longtime AIDS and LGBTQ+ rights activist, still found something to appreciate in Carpenter-McMillan’s stance. “Susan was extremely outspoken, and she knew that what she was saying was very provocative—and she owned both of those things,” Light says on this week’s episode of the Still Watching podcast. “We tend to have opinions about everybody without necessarily looking to ourselves or what we might’ve done in those circumstances. Same thing with Paula. It was very brave of Paula at that time to make the choices that she did. And when Susan saw the way that the patriarchy was treating her, that’s when Susan swooped in and was making the choice to speak to those two sides of what her purpose was in the world.”

For anyone who doubts that the real Carpenter-McMillan matched the energy of Light’s performance, there is ample video evidence to prove it. Light, who has worked with series executive producer and director Ryan Murphy many times, says that it’s her job to be her “character’s best friend,” but also credits Murphy for his commitment to finding nuance in his female characters. “Ryan Murphy is devoted to the way women are perceived,” Light says. “And you can see it in everything that he does and everything that he touches.”

Impeachment’s second episode, titled “The President Kissed Me,” is the first of the series to focus heavily on Monica Lewinsky and her relationship with Clinton, and also lays the groundwork for the friendship between Lewinsky and Linda Tripp—as well as Tripp’s eventual betrayal. On this episode of Still Watching, Katey Rich and Joanna Robinson discuss the many parallel threads of the episode, how the women whose lives were upended by the impeachment saga are depicted on the show, and yes, how well Clive Owen is capturing the famed appeal of Bill Clinton. Listen to the episode below: 

Next week on Impeachment: American Crime Story, even more public figures who rose to prominence in the late ’90s will be introduced, while Linda Tripp’s involvement with a reporter’s work becomes even more complex. In the meantime, subscribe to Still Watching on Apple Podcasts or anywhere else you get your podcasts. 

Joanna Robinson:  I wanted to start though by asking you what your memory is of living through all of this the first time, and if your perspective on everything has shifted at all, since then?

Judith Light: My memory of living through it, the first time is of course, memory doesn’t always serve particularly well, but I, I remember being shocked by a lot of people’s politics, their vitriol and their intense desire to go after the Clintons and to, in a way, use Monica as base and Paula also as base way to vilify and in ways really take down someone. And they also, so many of these politicians had also done the same thing. So I remember thinking that this is a very, it, people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. And I also thought about Monica as a, not an innocent, but as another person who was also being vilified. 

And it’s like, can we just keep ourselves to ourselves? And I thought that there was a lot of vindictiveness and cruelty involved in it. And I said this many times in the early days of AIDS and the vilification of the LGBTQIA+ community, that we are a sexual ethics society. And at the same time, as we are phobic, there is also a sense of vitalization with all this. And I found a lot of that kind of aspect of it very unpleasant.

It sounds like at the time you had a really good perspective on Monica, but I think a lot of people have done sort of a reckoning with the way in which they treated both Paula and Monica and the other women sort of caught up in this that.

Well, I think you look at what she’s done. She has reclaimed this. And this particular reclaiming is that she wanted to be a part of this and wanted to be a producer on Impeachment. The way she could have gone downhill, lied about it, hidden out. And what she did was she told the truth and she started in her truth and she never tried to pretend, cover over. She stood bravely in a light that was being shone on her that could have taken her down again. So you watch this woman own herself and her choice and what she did, whether she felt it was right or wrong, she owned herself. And there’s something very powerful in that.

Something that I think is so fascinating about this woman you’re playing Susan Carpenter McMillan is that she calls herself a conservative feminist at a time when the word feminist wasn’t something that women with opinions in the conservative wing of the party were calling themselves. What do you think it was about Susan that made her claim that word in particular?

Susan was extremely outspoken and she knew that what she was saying—because she was so smart—was very provocative, and she owned both of those things. We’re talking women who have owned something. And to that point, you have to also look a story in this light as well, who owned her choice and stood up for her choice. And, we can have opinions about everybody without necessarily looking to ourselves or what we might have done in those circumstances. Same thing with Paula, but it’s very brave of Paula at that time to make the choices that she did. And when Susan saw the way that the male-dominated society, the patriarchy was treating her, that’s when Susan swooped in and was making the choice to speak to those two sides of what her purpose was in the world. 

That’s what I love about this particular rendering of the story. It is about it is from the women’s point of view. And that’s what we’re beginning to see. And we’re beginning to see how the dynamic and the culture had changed because women had stood up and, own themselves in these particular ways. We’re seeing something very different. We’re having different dialogue about it, like you and I are right now.

Absolutely. I think it’s really interesting to watch your performance as Susan because Susan is obviously yes, someone who is speaking out for Paula, but as we see in the show is someone who’s also manipulating Paula in many ways and for, for a different agenda. But there’s also moments of real concern and pathos there. And I was wondering sort of when you were thinking about pulling all those things in Susan, this sort of manipulative condescension, but also these genuine occasional flashes of care. How do you think about that blend in this particular character?

You know, one of the things I’ve always said about any character that I play is that you can never be, you have to be your character’s best friend. You can’t judge your character. I would never call her manipulative. Some of her behavior approaches that way looks that way, but that’s not where coming from. I don’t think Susan thought that she was manipulating her Susan wanted, Susan was also getting attention from herself. And she saw a way to speak to the dynamic of what was happening with, with men in our society. And she has a very interesting backstory, a very interesting history.

Ryan Murphy is devoted to the way women are perceived. And you can see it in everything that he does and everything that he touches. So you’re looking at Ryan and his way of framing, the context that he’s using. And also you’ve got Sarah Burgess and other wonderful writers writing this show. So all of those pieces that you just spoke about are all laid in to the fabric of the character.  So I don’t attempt to think about Susan as a manipulative character. I’m doing the actions I’m being from the script, the map that I have, and creating that character.

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