During and after the election, liberals and conservatives alike accused each other of “living in a bubble,” where the only things they heard about the other side was what they already wished to hear. The bubble, and the fake news panic, and the ”alternative facts“ moment, are all signs of our new information climate, rich with speculation and innuendo and hostile to the verifiable truth. The apex predator of this environment is the openly partisan TV talk-show pundit, whose job is often the promotion divisiveness, no matter which network (or increasingly, platform). When veteran journalist Ted Koppel spoke with Fox News’s Sean Hannity during a piece on CBS Sunday Morning, Koppel accused Hannity of doing exactly that.

Koppel’s piece focused on the “alternate universes” Americans are living in, citing people like Hannity, Tomi Lahren, and even comedian John Oliver, and accusing them of “driving the country further and further apart.” Hannity countered by saying that he figured Americans could tell the difference between fact and opinion: “We have to give some credit to the American people that they are somewhat intelligent and that they know the difference between an opinion show and a news show.” Sensing Koppel’s disagreement, he continued, “You’re cynical. Look at that.”

When Hannity asked point-blank if Koppel thought he was “bad for America,” Koppel answered, “Yeah.”

“You know why? Koppel continued. “Because you’re very good at what you do, and because you have attracted a significantly more influential…” Here he was forced to pause while Hannity interrupted, “You’re selling the American people short.”

“Let me finish the sentence,” Koppel said, and Hannity yielded the floor. “You have attracted people who are determined that ideology is more important than facts,” Koppel said, coming back to his point about how pundits and anchors and journalists all have a responsibility to provide their followers with the truth, not just the version they want to hear.

Update (2:56 P.M.): After the interview aired Sunday, Hannity dared CBS News to release an unedited version.